"Purpose Precedes Creation" presentation Tuesday, Jan. 26, 7:30pm

Tarzan know much about Scopes Monkey Trial.

Tarzan also know much about science and superstition.

Did God design cancer and other horrible natural deaths Kyle...or did those evolve ?

Some one gave some of you Rembrant Weakland, just a question of who, makes you wonder how things do happen or evolve.

Tarzan point out to Nail Bender it Rembert Weakland. Rembrandt famous Dutch painter.

Tarzan not mean to be picky but if going to be snarky watch spelling.

Tarzan remind readers creation story faith belief not science.

"Flat Earth Society" Meeting Bookside Baptist Church immediately following.

Snarky = Tarzan= El gator = bad banana consumption.

I don't usually respond to foolishness, but I don't want to give the impression that I think some of these comments are valid.

God's creation was perfect. Death and disease entered our world when Adam and Eve chose to break God's one rule in the Garden of Eden. When sin entered the world, so did death, decay and disease.

I would remind Tarzan that evolution also requires faith. It is not science; that is why it is called a theory. The more scientific discoveries there are, I believe, the more difficult it becomes to believe in evolution.

For example, when faced with the complexities of the human genome, it takes a leap of faith to believe it happened over billions of years by accident. Some form of intelligent design is necessary.
...to be continued.

If you saw the movie, Expelled, Ben Stein asks atheist Richard Dawkins about how life began on earth. See http://blogs.greenfieldnow.com/practically_speaking/archive/2008/04/25/expelled-is-excellent-a.aspx

"Ben asks Dawkins, who created the universe and how did life start? Keep in mind Dawkins cannot accept Intelligent Design in any way, but he answers something akin to this: some other sort of life could have evolved elsewhere and it planted its seed here.

In other words, some sort of alien from another world evolved into some very intelligent being and then came here and planted that first seed of life. (No explanation of how that alien life got started.) I think Dawkins went on to say something about how it (life) couldn't have just happened all at once. (Watch for this part when you see the movie.)

To Dawkins, Alien Design is OK, Intelligent Design, not OK--even if who or what is that intelligence is not identified?

Tarzan observe that Kyle hold out to be expert on economy, health care policy and theology

Tarzan troubled by Kyle praying for people to have health insurance refused, canceled, and claim denied

Tarzan also observe that Kyle edit and censor comments

Tarzan troubled by what see

According to Kyle..."God's creation was perfect. Death and disease entered our world when Adam and Eve chose to break God's one rule in the Garden of Eden. When sin entered the world, so did death, decay and disease."

That is very interesting Kyle. You say God "created" perfection. Now how did death and disease come into existence. Either it was created..or evolved from materials that were created....or from material that always existed.

I have a theory. I believe there is a material that is the raw material that everything else is made up of. It exists everywhere...and there is no such thing as nothing. You can't get rid of it...you can only reshape it. It's the stuff of which everything is made of.

Now back to your concept. Either God created death and disease...which is kind of a nasty thing to do....or it evolved from that which God had created...either with his/her blessing or as an unanticipated side effect...with the latter being doubtful from an all loving and knowing and powerful God. Now if this could evolve...well anything could evolve. One way or another this horrible thing...death and disease was either created by the creator...the one creator....or it evolved. Now..if you're going to tell me the Devil created it...then I'd say it still is indirectly coming from God because he to would have been responsible for creating the Devil. So, in general, why would God be responsible for creating or letting evolve something so horrible and death and disease and all the suffering that is associated with it. There must have been more humane ways to punish people for being bad.

htc, Re: created perfection, don't take my word for it. If you want an exact quote, it is from Genesis 1:31: "God saw all that He had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning--the sixth day." Creation was finished.

About your theory that raw material exists everywhere...and "there is no such thing as nothing", I would refer you to Genesis 1:1: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." This is followed by the Let there be...light, sky, earth, plants, animals, etc. and finally man.

Your either God created disease/or it evolved argument is flawed because it is neither. True, it is difficult to understand why God allows Satan to run around and reek havoc within certain restrictions. The book of Job is a good illustration of this. But God is good all the time and even Job said this about God, though He slay me, yet will I trust Him

You are free to believe whatever you want because God created man with free will, just as He created the angels with free will. Lucifer was the highest ranked angel in heaven. He chose to rebel and 1/3 of the other angels rebelled with him.

Obviously, we aren't going to sort all of this out on a blog comment forum. If you really want some answers to these questions, may I suggest you come and speak with one of our pastors.

htc, Re: created perfection, don't take my word for it. If you want an exact quote, it is from Genesis 1:31: "God saw all that He had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning--the sixth day." Creation was finished.

About your theory that raw material exists everywhere...and "there is no such thing as nothing", I would refer you to Genesis 1:1: "In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth." This is followed by the Let there be...light, sky, earth, plants, animals, etc. and finally man.
...to be continued

Oops, I thought my original comment was too long and was going to split it into 2 parts.

Was the creation "perfect" as you stated in your first rebuttal, or was it merely "very good?" As a technical sort, perfect and very good are not the same to me.

(Oh, and it's "wreak" havoc.")

Carpie, True, I am not a perfect speller or even a very good one ;-), as for your more important comment, I will refer you to an excellent source: Answers in Genesis: Why Does God's Creation Include Death & Suffering? http://www.answersingenesis.org/articles/nab/why-does-creation-include-suffering

"Was God’s Creation Really 'Very Good'?

In the beginning, about 6,000 years ago, ...God “saw everything that He had made, and indeed it was very good” (Genesis 1:31).

To have been very good, God’s creation must have been without blemish, defect, disease, suffering, or death. There was no “survival of the fittest.” Animals did not prey on each other, and the first two humans, Adam and Eve, did not kill animals for food. The original creation was a beautiful place, full of life and joy in the presence of the Creator."

Hi Kyle,

Who said God created this 6000 years ago? Is the exact timeline stated by year? Who were the original authors and the revisers, editors, and reviewers of the original transcript along with precise dates of each revision?

Microbes and other organisms have repeatedly demonstrated evolution to be a fact. Evolution is what I believe to be God's greatest idea put into action, it is an astonishing creation. To say evolution does not exist is to take away his greatest accomplishment!

Why does cancer exist again, especially the very insipid painful forms, including those that inflict children? Couldn't God's perfect, or at least very good, creativity at least have given his chosen people whom he loves a less terrible form of death. Do young and newborns deserve sometimes painful death because he was scorned by A and E. 6000 years ago? It is all connected, you can't say God created Everything, and it was perfect oh BUT bad things are not his fault at all. He allowed free will, but why place that rebellious desire in the brain he meticulously crafted in his image?

Also, if these first animals did not prey on each other, what did all the predator species eat?

How did all these things problems occur if God did not create them?

Oh yes, and what is it with all those pesky dinosaur, early hominid, and billions of other fossils, those strange sedimentary layers everywhere, those strange readings on every radiocarbon analyzing instrument ever put into use...

God only creates the good things in life; Satan makes the bad. Unless it's a war about religion, oil or anything that would compromise national security. Those things are fought in God's name.

Based on some of your insipid comments above, does that make us all sinners for eating meat. fish and fowl? By your reasoning, it would. Since Satan must have caused us to eat something other than fruits and vegetables. (Unless carrion was part of the early diet of mankind. No, animals would not have died on their own.) I guess I'll just have to ask my minister for the answers...oh wait...nevermind.

Read Bishop John Spong. A good writer explaining the contradictions and mythical, yet morality-based nature of the bible. (My fundamentalist sister-in-law was too afraid to even pick it up, when she'd seen it on my coffee table. Implied that I would be cast into a pool of eternal fire for reading it.)

Tarzan point out fossil record from Africa prove mankind older than 6000 years.

Tarzan still giggling.

Tarzan agree with CarpieD about poor spelling. Tarzan also say eat more fruit.

Tarzan should not make comments about poor spelling, he can't even speak to be understood. A poorly spelled word does not change the presentation or discussion. I.E. Rembrandt Weakland really paints a poor picture of the Catholic religion, your jungle brain may not have understood that sarcasmmmmm.

Have fun with your monkeys one way or another that will end you also. Not a pleasant way to go. Spirituality or no Spirituality.You ought to invite El Gator over for a monkey party and brush up on your spelling critique that really means nothing to anyone. Have a lousy day,

Come on folks, have a heart. You are telling a three-year-old that there is no such thing as Santa Claus. Number one, do you think she is going to believe you? Number two, why would you want her to?

dbeardda....excellent point. Kyle...it's great to have faith and beliefs while seeking the truth about something. But spreading your faith and beliefs as the truth is when problems arise. That's the problem with all these different religions and why there is so much violence because of religion. There are so many holes in your beliefs though.....as an intelligent person you really should look at the whole religion thing a little closer....you owe it to yourself and others you try to convince of the truth about our creation.

Tarzan not mean to be picky but remind Nail Bender that gator native to North America. Croc native to African continent. Tarzan familiar with croc and stay out of river.

Tarzan play with monkeys all time.

Not like you think.

Tarzan think Nail Bender have vivid imagination.

Tarzan wonder if Nail Bender anti-Catholic.

Sorry I missed this post. I see someone beleives the bible is historical fact word for word.